Lift Up Your Eyes in Torment

To be or not to be, that is the question. Not life however but instead a parable.

Picture 536

Please let me out of here!

A frequented target for the defense of an eternal place of punishment for the wicked is found in what seems a pretty straightforward story.

Those who use this text for this purpose though are met with a challenge from those who question the author’s intended genre.

Is the story Jesus told of a certain rich man and a poor beggar named Lazarus the recount of an actual event, or is it a parable put forth with meaning hidden to the uncircumcised heart?

This is a very important question, for the answer determines whether Jesus is acknowledging an actual eternal place of torment with His words, or communicating another symbolic Kingdom truth.

It is in the sixteenth chapter of Luke’s account of the gospel where we find Jesus sharing of these two men who both die and awaken, one at Abraham’s side, and one in great torment in Hades.

W. Edward Bedore of the Berean Bible Society, a proponent of this being an actual event makes these points:

1. Parables are true-to-life, but hypothetical, illustrative stories. The names of specific individuals are never given in them, but here the names of three men are given; Lazarus, Abraham, and Moses. Also mentioned are the “prophets” who were also real people. (“Moses and the prophets” is a general term for the whole Old Testament that refers to its human authors).

2. It does not have the normal form of a parable with an introduction, analogy story, and application. Instead it is in the form of the narration of a real-life story given for the purpose of illustration.

3. It does not use the principle of comparison in a way that is characteristic of parables.

4. The discussion between the rich man and Abraham is not consistent with the parabolic style found in the Scriptures.

5. It seems obvious that in relating this particular story when He did, the Lord Jesus was using a real-life account that many of those listening to Him that day could readily relate to it because they actually knew, or at least knew of, the two men involved. The rich man’s brothers may have even been in the audience.

There are those who strongly disagree with Mr. Bedore’s conclusion. These would argue that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable because:

1. It is included with other parables. The theme is the same as the previous parable. It is a parable about unjust stewards wrongly handling the riches of God.

2. It was told to a crowd. When speaking to crowds, Matthew tells his readers that Jesus always spoke in parables (13:34).

3. Abraham nor Lazarus could be in Heaven. Jesus said, “No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man (John 3:13).”

4. The immediate audience, even Jesus’ closest friends, would never have interpreted this story as about two men actually dying and waking up in heaven and hell. Through the lens of Jewish history and theology, this parable was Jesus’ response to the Pharisees’ accusation, “This man receives and eats with sinners (Luke 15:2),” and the condemning words against them, “The Pharisees were lovers of money (Luke 16:14).”

Point four from the latter list interests me enough to pursue it a little more. Just as ccragamuffin recently shared, “It is of great importance to hear what the original recipients heard.” It may be taking advantage of one of Alice’s rabbit holes, but what could this story mean if it is a parable, as some suggest?

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Possum’s Foiled Swim Party

There’s nothing Pot Pie loves more than a dip in the water trough after a hard day of working cattle. He’s just not quite sure of swimming with a prehistoric bird.

…especially one who ignores him.

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Pondering the Pardon to an Interuption: O’ Hell, where is your victory?

If hell is a factual place of punishment as many Christians hold, should God then have warned Adam of eternal torment rather than death alone?

Harrowing of Hell Medium Res

Harrowing of Hell Medium Res (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

As I tried to say farewell to the Older Testament (for this series) in a recent posting, ccragamuffin would have nothing of it. In comment, she brought to light a reality that appears unarguably sound, “ There was no Jewish theology of an everlasting burning damnation for sinners in the OT.”

She is very wise to add that “this is worth ponder time.” And so, here we are again. I will cast this premature thought offered up by some, “Christianity’s doctrine of hell has been greatly influenced by outside cultures and traditions.” This is a thought for another day, but it at least needs spoken to explain why considering the Jewish thoughts on the afterlife are important.

In the same referenced article, RJ from Real Christianity, challenged these inferred thoughts with a quote from John the Baptist.

His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” [Luke 3:17]

While he is very right in assigning the Immerser to a status of Old Testament Hebrew prophet, there are those who would refute that John is here speaking of hell-fire.  Instead, they would claim he is announcing the coming of the Messiah’s Kingdom with the use of OT terminology, similar to the prophecies which found their fulfillment through Assyria and Babylon, that the New Covenant was being made a reality in Christ Jesus; the Old was becoming obsolete, burned away by an unstoppable fire.

One side of the aisle would argue favorably with RJ’s conclusion that John’s words are evidence of Israel’s awareness of hell, the other side not so much.

So convinced are those across the room of this that T.A. Herring says, “Contrary to popular opinion, there is no notion of post-mortem punishment, or even life beyond the grave, in the Old Testament (Scandalous Grace).”

In either inclination though, we must admit that the account of the fall in the garden leaves us with no such knowledge of hell; so what of the introductory question of Adam’s penalty for his rebellion? If the punishment for his partaking of the illegal fruit was eternal damnation, what do we make of God’s terminal warning, “When you eat of this fruit, dying you will die?”

Would it be fair here to make a ‘progressive revelation’ argument? This is undeniably a theme that plays out with all of Scripture. As we work our way through the Bible, we meet God as Creator, Sustainer, Provider, Healer, and a whole bunch of other titles ending ors-ers, until finally He is revealed fully in His Son.

What He has given us is the revelation of Himself and what He is doing, but He does this in His own timing and at exactly the time we need to know it. Therefore, if this argument is valid, then it is ultimately in His hands as to whether we need to know of hell, if it is real, if it is told at all, and if so, when.

If this is true, while it definitely gives us much pondering fodder, even if Israel seems silent of an eternal place of punishment in the Old Testament, it may not be sufficient evidence by itself to write the reality of hell off as mythology. For as the New Testament unfolds, it is hard to deny the inference of hell, and that one must eventually consider its veracity.

On a side-note,  I realize this series is forcing me to look at some things that for many will seem borderline taboo. I’m trying to be unbiased, but as can be imagined, it’s very difficult when I’ve spent the majority of a lifetime within the walls of Evangelical Baptist churches.

As I re-read what I’ve written so far, I fear some may wonder if I’m arguing against my own denomination’s beliefs. In reality, I’m just trying to look at this topic objectively while giving all sides an opportunity to present their evidence.

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